[blaw]

Hello,

Guys, this thread is not about Microsoft nor OpenSource. =)

I do like PHP and, compared to other lanugages I know, I program in PHP a lot and mostly happy with it, but thought this would be good to post for a change:

Why PHP Sucks (for large systems)
http://www.bitstorm.org/edwin/en/php-sucks/

It is written by an experienced PHP programmer and points out some of the issues with PHP (especially when it is used for large projects). Not that PHP is no good for large projects, but for those of you who think PHP is unconditionally the best server-side language for no matter what project you work on, you should take a look at it. I guess this has been talked about in many other places for some time now, but the above page was the top of the Google result for the keyword I used and was dated recently.

I strongly agree with the item 4 being PHP's shortcoming. I just don't understand why PHP team did not improve on this with PHP 5. Also, item 7 is so true, too, but I don't think this will be officially resolved for at least another major version change. Other items, too, have some good points, I guess.

PHP is still a great language and I will definitely continue using it, but that's why it is good to read such articles, too. =)

[culturek]

Originally Posted by MadDog

Sorry gotta disagree with that. ASP is free. Ive been using it for years, never had to pay for it.

Simply put in your windows disk, install IIS, and there you have it. You can also download ASP.NET for free from the microsoft website. And ASP.NET will kick the crap out of another language out there.

As Microsoft moved into Windows XP it has become not quite as free as you think.

Windows XP Home, the OS bundled with most off the shelf solutions, does not have the ability to run IIS without some major cracking and ownership of a Win2000 CD.

While .NET is free and introduces a number of fantastic features to application development, PEAR for PHP has introduced a set of standard libraries that can be tapped into.

The difference is that with .NET and ASP you are looking at hosting costs that far exceed, on average, the hosting cost of a LAMP solution.

So, when you look at the total cost of ownership ASP and ASP.NET are far more expensive to own and operate.

I was a MAJOR MAJOR proponent of ASP because so many businesses use it for core applications. ASP.NET further convinced me that ASP was really the route to go for business applications. However, after spending about 3 months of time coding in PHP 4 and now in PHP 5...I have to say I was pretty mistaken.

In terms of rapid application development PHP beats ASP hands down. In terms of scalability ASP still probably has the edge because it is so ingrained into IIS and thus the actual server archetecture.

Again...mySQL has the edge over SQL2000 in nearly every single category. A SQL2000 perpetual liscence for a not for profit is over $1,500 bucks a CPU...on most "good" servers you're looking at a $6,000 up front investment just to have a quality DB behind your ASP.

mySQL, while not as feature rich, offers the performance, and with newer releases the prospect of db clustering.

It is becoming harder and harder to justify support for an expensive, hardware and OS specific solution for serving web applications. Let's face it, if it's something that it truly going to be used in the day to day operation of your company, the web should be the last place you are looking to place the application.

And if you're hell-bent on spending the money...Oracle smacks SQL2000 around rag doll in a hurricane in terms of scalability, power, and pure feature set.

So, before you make a fanboy post about what ASP and ASP.NET can and cannot do in relation to PHP you really need to take a moment to look at the larger picture...

[culturek]

Originally Posted by <?Wille?>

then again someone who thinks computing is easy will probably choose linux since he understands it and knows the difference. besides that he doesint have to spend money on windows and he can use that money to something else

LOL

So there is knowledge transfer between understanding "computing" and installing a Linux distro?

That's like saying because I appreciate the flavor of a grape I understanding the wine making processes in depth.

You can appreciate one without an interest in the other...

[darkcarnival]

i like php for many reasons. but first let me say somethings about what i seen so far.

1st off java-based scripts are very slow in my 2 cents also you cant do as much.
2nd asp is a dying scripture, i have a host that always telling me that asp & asp.net will soon be like cobolt a forgotten language.

now that i got that out of the way

php is powerful, its very fast, and can run of just about any OS.
i also use it since its very popular and when i need help with it, i can find it.
but its mainly what you wabnt to program with, but i will always suggest php and all php people will, its just that way.

but look at this forum, look at the # of posts php has,perl,asp,asp,net,ect. php has the most in that section.

look at the overall availablity of scripts,tutorials, and other php items on this site compared to the rest.

and also php has a offical website that has an answer to everything you need. i do not know of any other web langage that provides a manuel that covers every single function, and feature add-ons.(if you have, plz provide a link of some kind)

but for future programmers, i suggest you look at what you want to do, want a chat room script, go java. anything else pretty much is your choice.

not to bang on java people but i only see java-based language (jsp,java) to be only useful for chat rooms, my 2 cents but i never seen any other good thing for it.

EDIT:
oh, btw i forgot to mention 1 thing that NO other web language does, show your errors on the page your testing. that is very handy to have when testing/debugging your programs, every other language pops a 505 error and you have to look through your error log(if you even have 1 or access to it) and that can really suck time and paients out of 1.

[Four0Four]

First off:

Originally Posted by Kelvin

take a reality check, about 1 in 1000 computers purchased is a Mac, so people really prefer them?!! sheesh

True, but how much is a Mac compared to a Windows machine?
I am pretty sure most beginners wouldn't pick a $5,000 machine over a $1,000 machine unless it was highly reccomended by a friend or co-worker or something. So they take the Windows and they learn it and are simply too lazy to learn some other OS. Simple as that.

Now back on topic, I see PHP as the Windows of web programming. PHP has many built in functions while the others do have functions and modules, PHP just has more to choose from witch makes it a hell of a lot easier.

Now why I like it: it's fast, simple, and MySQL is great also it runs on everything.

There is my two cents

[Infinite_Hackers]

Tell me the advantages of having windows as your OS.
Then tell me the disadvantages of having any linux as your OS.

[Four0Four]

Originally Posted by Infinite_Hackers

Tell me the advantages of having windows as your OS.
Then tell me the disadvantages of having any linux as your OS.

Window's advantages:
Most software, games and other stuff is made to run on Windows, a large percentage of computer owners use Windows.

Unix based OS's advantages:
Very secure, free, less buggy.

The disadvantages of Windows is the opposite of the advantages of unix based OSs and visa versa.